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March 02, 2005

Comments

Fargus

Bravo, Abigail. Couldn't've said it better myself.

Bubblehead

But why should I have to pay for the idiots? The biggest problem with SS is that they will use all the money I earn to feed some idiot who worked for $5.50 an hour his whole life. This isn't a socialist state, I do not work for the good of the brethern, I work for me and my family.

Bubblehead

Plus, if they are that dumb we will tell them the cat food is Caviar and they'll never know the difference.

Kender

Bubblehead...finally someone that can THINK up in here.

You go BH!

Kyle Hasselbacher

But why should I have to pay for the idiots?

Whether one "should" help the poor is a moral question tangential to the effects of the action.

There are real benefits to helping the poor (such as reduced crime). Whether the benefits are worth the cost is something of a value judgement.

This isn't a socialist state, I do not work for the good of the brethern, I work for me and my family.

Am I my brother's keeper?

Kender

I have always wondered why God, Omnipotent God, had to ask Cain where the hell Abel was.

SheaNC

Bubblehead, Kender... you think that people who don't hit it big in the stockmarket are stupid. You think that people who earn less than you are idiots.

There is such a thing as reversal of fortune. If it ever happens to you, and you need help, just remember, what goes around comes around.

Fargus

Bubblehead is right, guys. Those minimum wage jobs that somebody has to work to support the bottom rung of our economy, those people are just stupid. And you know what would be best? If we just killed them all in retirement so that they wouldn't have to spend money. It'd be a blessing anyway, considering how stupid they all are. I mean, really, why be a janitor when you can be an engineer? That's just stupid.

There are extenuating circumstances, man, that you're just not getting here. Not everybody who has trouble in retirement is stupid. Get that through your head.

Kyle Hasselbacher

I have a modest proposal. Rather than make the old eat cat food, we should make the old into cat food. It would be their final contribution to a society that no longer needs them.

Who's with me? Kender? Bubblehead?

Kender

You know, I never said the poor should eat catfood, and I do believe we should help the poor, but with the retirement age moved up I don't understand why, in 48 years of working, (consider a starting age of 22 and retirment age of 70) one cannot secure some kind of modest retirement income for oneself.

The elderly have medicare, and while not being the best of medical insurance, it is still an insurance that covers the things that help keep you alive.

Nobody has said we shouldn't help the poor, but with regards to SS, it was not menat to be THE retirement account, but rather one source of income in retirement. Even FDR said that. However people have come to believe that the Gov. is responsible for your retirement and that is simply not true. People need to remember that and work towards their retirement and live WITHIN their means, and maybe sometimes below their means instead of simply thinking that SS will take care of them when they are old.

And Kyle? That was too funny.

Fargus

Bubblehead said:

"But why should I have to pay for the idiots? The biggest problem with SS is that they will use all the money I earn to feed some idiot who worked for $5.50 an hour his whole life. This isn't a socialist state, I do not work for the good of the brethern, I work for me and my family."

That kind of implies that anybody who doesn't make enough money is only doing so because he/she is an idiot, and hence he/she doesn't deserve any help.

Right?

Bubblehead

I started from very little. A lay-off or two has put me back down to nothing, but I got myself back up and running.

2 things can get you ahead in the workforce, smarts and hard work. Many of the people who struggle don't do so because they are stupid but because they are lazy.

I bust my butt to make sure my family is going to be taken care of. In times of crisis I have done whatever it takes. Worked hourly jobs for low rates, had multiple jobs... That's what taking care of yourself means.

I didn't work 2-3 jobs at a time when I was young to watch some other person who wasn't willing to do the same take my share of the kitty.

Give me a choice. Allow those that are willing to Opt Out of SS and take their chances. I know I am smarter that "the goverment", regardless of the administration in power.

Kyle Hasselbacher

2 things can get you ahead in the workforce, smarts and hard work.

...and luck, and nepotism (which is also luck, but earlier).

I didn't work 2-3 jobs at a time when I was young to watch some other person who wasn't willing to do the same take my share of the kitty.

Pretend that at the end of the day, there are two meals available (in "the kitty"). You busted your fanny, but someone else actually worked four times harder than you did (which may only mean "made more money at the roulette table"). Do you accept getting only half a meal, while this hard-working other gets a meal and a half?

It doesn't seem fair to me. Getting what you earn is one thing, but hoarding what you don't need is another.

Give me a choice. Allow those that are willing to Opt Out of SS and take their chances.

If it really were only your future that's at stake, I might be willing to grant this. The way I see it, it's really our future. The risk you take isn't only to yourself, it is also to those around you who will take care of you if you fail.

(As an asside, research shows that risks to ourselves that we decide to take seem smaller than risks to ourselves that are imposed upon us by others.)

Some of us have decided that we are our brother's keeper. Given that, we've decided that Social Security is a good (secure, predicable) way to provide for the old. It's all well and good to say that average results of another plan will be better, but if that average is the result of Bill Gates averaged with 1,000 people with nothing, I don't consider that an improvement.

Kender

Go to france and be your brothers keeper there Kyle....they like that kind of attitude, (you only need so much, give the rest to us so we can care of those with bad luck or afflicted with stupidity), here, we believe in work your way up!!!!


Show me a man that can't get ahead and I will show you a man with few marketable skills and/or no ambition or intelligence.

Kender

While discussing this post with a leftist friend of mine she brought up two good points.

First, we can't make cat food out of old people because there really aren't alot of nutrients left in their bodies.

Second, Purina needs to make a new line of canned food called "Shriv Food". A highly nutritious yet affordable food source for those golden years, and of course in several mouth watering flavors, but not too mouth watering, lest we loosen that denture cream.

Quotes from that leftist friend: "I used to be a socialist, but then I started paying taxes."

And:
"Socialism works in a finite population....it's called Switzerland."

SheaNC

Kender, you "don't understand why, in 48 years of working, (consider a starting age of 22 and retirment age of 70) one cannot secure some kind of modest retirement income for oneself."

That would be fine in the storybook world you live in where there are no auto accidents or other causes of disabling injury, no natural disasters, no diseases, no cancer, no developmental disabilities, no misfortune. Your fantasy world where everything is as you wish, where anyone who feels a twinge of sympathy for their fellow human beings has to be shipped off to France. The totally delusional world o' Kender.

Bubblehead, you say "Allow those that are willing to Opt Out of SS and take their chances. I know I am smarter that "the goverment", regardless of the administration in power."

If Social Security is privatized, I can hardly wait for all the people who think like you to come crawling back after they have squandered their savings on bad investments or spent it instead of saving it, begging to share in the handouts offered by the "socialists."

And we'll end up helping you, unfortunately, because that's what we do. Too bad.

Kender

My fairytale existence? Funny....fact is I have had major health problems my entire life. It has never stopped me from working, in a field that requires physical stamina and strength no less, and I am only halfway to retirment and the future is secure...at the moment. That is why I advocate for capitalism and against socialism.

I have security for the moment, and it feels really good to know I did it. It is a great feeling of accomplishment. The say the party of the left is the party of feelings, and for the most part that is true, but this feeling of success is better than almost any feeling of helping someone. In fact it is this feeling that brings out the humanitarian side. This feeling of accomplishment is the reason that people like to help other people.

People on the left like to help people for one reason I believe. To feel good that they did something for someone less fortunate, "See how caring I am? I fed that poor, societally victimized, alcoholic homeless man."

People on the right hate that feeling of "smug pity" and would rather help people when we FEEL the charitable pull to do so, for that you see is true charity. It comes from the heart and I daresay it shows more honest love for ones fellow man that the forced, whiny socialism that the left promotes.

That is why people on the right work so hard to be such successes....we live in fear of the "smug pity" form selfish socialists like yourself.

Kender

Wow, did you see that?

I just showed you how the right is actually more caring of their fellow man and has more faith in humanity than the left.

The left is full of people hating smug bastards. No wonder you guys whine and bitch.

I would too if I were a smug people hater.

Kyle Hasselbacher

I have always wondered why God, Omnipotent God, had to ask Cain where the hell Abel was.

Same reason I ask my daughter, "what did I just say?" (Nyuck nyuck nyuck.)

[Stuff about "the left" and "the right"]

I just showed you how the right is actually more caring of their fellow man and has more faith in humanity than the left.

Gosh, that left really sucks. (A group's members are not all the same. That goes for "the right" as well.)

Kender

Very true Kyle. And a very funny comment about asking your daughter what you just said. I ask that question of my son all the time.

SheaNC

Kender, I described your fairy-tale existence as such because you presume that everyone's life will go along just as you imagine they should. In reality, it is different.

Your inaccurate characterizations of the left sound more like projection. You make accusations, then proceed to demonstrate that you are precisely what you claim to condemn.

Thanks for that :)

Kender

How so SheaNC?

My life isn't a fairytale....I have had to regroup several times and change plans....it just so happens that I am good at that skill.

As a friend of mine likes to put it, I fall in shit and smell like roses. I just have that "it". BTW, "IT" is confidence that I won't fail and the sure knowledge that if I do fail I can just start again.

But again, how am I 'projecting' and then showing I am what I project about? Sounds like off the cuff lib rhetoric from you so I am calling you out on it.

SheaNC

Kender, your comments throughout this thread speak for themselves. You indulge in sweeping, inaccurate generalizations, name-calling, cheap insults and smug condescension; then you accuse everyone on the left of being like you, saying they "whine and bitch." Well, after listening to twenty-odd years of whining and bitching from right-wing media, I'd say that description is misapplied.

And as I've said, the area where you really miss the boat is your insistence that anyone who does not achieve a financial status defined by you is inferior. And you call other people smug?

I stand behind my first post in the thread. It comes around even faster in glass houses.

Kender

Not everyone is going to achieve financial parity....life isn't fair that way. But why, beyond assuring the most basic needs, should people that do be taxed even heavier to care for those that can't, won't or don't achieve self sufficiency?

Why should the money I make be given to those that don't? Why should the government be able to tell me that I have made enough and don't need anymore simply because others aren't where I am, financially, in this world?

That is what is being advocated. It is far from whining on my part. It isn't bitching or even complaining. It is stating my case that life isn't fair and I don't feel it is my responsibility to give up more than I already do because I have more than others.

That is called socialism. That is what the people running the democratic party is calling for....more government control...more taxes....for what? To pay for people that end up worse off than me?

The more of this socialism crap I hear from the left...the more complaints about personal responsibility being BS......the more they want to take care of everybody makes me that much more likely to tell the left to bugger off.....I am quickly getting to the point of saying "Yes...let them eat cat food"!!!

SheaNC

Okay. But as a non-partisan (I don't belong to either the Democratic or Republican parties), I can honestly say that fiscal irresponsibility and increased government control have been fervently embraced by the republicans.

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